APP: Hello again, Barbara, let's talk about some of your latest Usenet postings...
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Hi… Okay. But perhaps you should make clear at the beginning of this interview that you are not a member of the mask-wearing non-religious crowd that calls itself Anonymous.
APP: They believe that I am one of them? That is hilarious!
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Some sure think that you are one of them and others think that you are me.
APP: Not that I am you?
BARBARA SCHWARZ (laughs): No, nobody believes that.
APP: How disappointing.
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Guess some of these Chans and masked people think that anybody who does something anonymous belongs automatically to them.
APP: The term "anonymous" is not a protected trademark. Have people forgotten the Anonymous Informer also called "AI" who posted on alt.religion.scientology long before group Anonymous ever heard of Scientology?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: I read that the average age of a person who edits Wikipiggy articles is only 17 years old, and I think that is also the average age of the Anonymous gang. A few years ago, they still were wearing diapers. They hardly could read what the Anonymous Informer posted on ARS.
APP: After having established that I am not one of them, let's cut to the chase. Do you believe in ghosts, Barbara?
BARBARA SCHWARZ (laughs): Only in Caspar. He is so cute… Why do you ask me this crap?
APP: I've read some of your postings about thetans without bodies.
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Then you haven't read them thoroughly because a thetan is not a ghost as in ghost stories. He is a spirit.
APP: Is your definition of thetan the same as L. Ron Hubbard's?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Yes, absolutely. - Some people call it soul or spirit but L. Ron Hubbard defined it much clearer and better. The thetan is the individual, the spiritual being that has a body and has a mind and who handles his or her body. A thetan is the person himself or herself — not his/her body or his/her name, his/her mind or anything else. The thetan is YOU or ME or anyone else who has a body.
APP: I'm still not convinced that I'm a thetan.
BARBARA SCHWARZ: So, who is that person inside of you then?
APP: It's me of course.
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Who is me?
APP: Haha! Trying to trick me into revealing my identity? I'm APP.
BARBARA SCHWARZ: I know your real identity… But who is that who says he is APP?
APP: I told you already, it's me.
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Does your body say that you are APP?
APP: No, I'm saying it.
BARBARA SCHWARZ: As your body wasn't saying it, so who is I?
APP: Me!
BARBARA SCHWARZ: I try to make you see something. Tell me what you are.
APP: A person, a human being…
BARBARA SCHWARZ: And what will you be when your body dies?
APP: A dead dude? I don't know…
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Do you think your personality dies with the body?
APP: I don’t know. Hope not.
BARBARA SCHWARZ: What is that inside of your body that has these good feelings but also sometimes anger and fear…
APP: That is me of course…
BARBARA SCHWARZ: If you would be just a body, you could not have feelings because a body without a thetan is dead and has no feelings as nobody is there.
APP: I am not just a body but also something spiritual that can think.
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Did you ever see a dead person in her eyes?
APP: I saw once a diseased person but somebody closed her eyes fast.
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Because just the body stares at you but the person, the thetan has left the body. Eyes with a thetan behind them look completely different. You can see the thetan usually behind a person's eyes when she has a body. When you see a dead body again, look her in the eyes, then go to a person who has not died and compare. You will see the thetan, you will see the difference. Okay, let's try another approach. Do you love your son and daughter?
APP: Of course.
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Which part of you loves your son and daughter? Your spine, your nerves, your brain?
APP: I would say that my heart loves my daughter and my son.
BARBARA SCHWARZ: And if you would have a heart disease and your heart would be exchanged with an artificial heart, would you then no longer love your daughter and son?
APP: You got me there…
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Try to find out who that is who says "I" and who is aware of himself and who has those many feelings and then you will come to the conclusion that you are not a body but a spiritual being, a thetan who is not a body and a mind but who HAS a body and a mind.
APP: The Church of Scientology says that a thetan is immortal. Do you agree?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Yes, under normal circumstances, I agree.
APP: Just under normal circumstances?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Let's say, Grandma dies. One morning you try to bring her a cup of tea and find her dead in her bed. In her hands, she still holds the Magazine "Most Beautiful Brides of 1913" and she has a smile on her face but there is no life anymore in that body of hers. That means that she, the thetan, the personality, the spirit that IS your Grandma has left her old body. The body is left like an old coat but your Grandma is still alive but has no body anymore. The thetan lives on and is immortal if nobody messes with Grandma after she has died.
APP: Who the hell would mess with my Grandma after she died?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Bad people who makes medical experiments with thetans. Many other people make a mistake by thinking that all existing knowledge and technology is known to the broad public. But it is not. It can be proven that a person is a thetan and that a thetan is immortal but a thetan can be seriously messed up and taken apart and not just implanted together with bad thetans trying to pervert the better thetan. Scientologists should be aware of this as the Scientology creed says souls that have the same rights as a person. If nothing bad could be done to a thetan or soul, why does it then need rights?
APP: Now it is the soul, not the thetan?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Apparently, it should say thetan and not soul in the Scientology creed. I find it wrong that the Scientology creed uses the word soul instead of thetan, and I am sure that it wasn't L. Ron Hubbard who mixed these terms up.
APP: You just said that the thetan is spiritual. How can somebody track and destroy something spiritual?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: The thetan is indeed spiritual but its anchor or dimension points and his mind consists of a tiny bit of material. This is good and bad news…
APP: Why is that good and bad news?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Good news because a family could see how thetan Grandma leaves the body and where she goes and where she takes a new body and is born again as baby. The death of grandma could be filmed with a good camera and the family would see a tiny cloud leaving the body at the moment of death. The thetan has no mass at all but her mind and her anchor points have some tiny bit of mass and that cloudy stuff can be seen. She goes exterior and now she has mixed feeling. On one hand, she feels great as nothing bothers her anymore. That Arthritis and Diabetes is gone and her vision is great! On the other hand, she sees her family weep and they don't hear her saying that she is still alive and don't see that she still is in the room trying to get their attention. The bad news is, also bad people can track a bodyless thetan due to her dimension or anchor points and her mind and can lure it in a trap and could destroy her.
APP: What kind of camera?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: A good one. An infrared camera would be a good choice.
Here is a YouTube video and a photographer tells you how she captured orbs on film.
The funny thing is that they seem to call names into the night to attract them. (Laughs) Guess when you call names like Jim, John, Karen and Susan, many come as many had those names when they had bodies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkRPTHAtfFE
APP: She says she doesn't know what they are.
BARBARA SCHWARZ: But I know what they are: thetans without bodies.
APP: Are thetans without bodies body thetans?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Well, there are thetans who have a body like you. Then there are thetans without bodies because they died like your great-grandfather. Thetans without bodies can be good or bad, just as they were good or bad when they had bodies. Some bad thetans without bodies, when they see you, they throw themselves over you and make you feel miserable, depressed, and creepy because you can sense how horrible they were and are when they are all over you. Visit the basement and attics of old German houses and pay attention how they make you feel when they attack you just for showing up. They have not much power. They have no arms and no weapons. Many would like to kill you but with what? Exactly… Some might attach themselves onto you but you can make them leave and often they leave on their own again. But there are these who are hard to get rid of: destroyed thetans, parts of thetans that have germ and bacteria bodies and attack your body and give you allergies and make you sick. They are at and in your body and cause you cancer, most of the time activated by secret service doctors. And there are thetans with bodies, in other word, criminal SEGNPMSS people who use silent sounds to talk into your subconscious mind to bring you down. These are forms of "body thetans" that I have discovered.
APP:If that is true, why doesn't the media report about it?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: It is a secret German world. Nothing that is not SEGNPMSS approved is released to the broad public. Many people make a mistake by thinking that all existing knowledge and technology is known to the broad public. But it is not. Secret services keep technology and methods secret, and this includes technology and methods to track and destroy thetans after they left their bodies. They know a lot more than they publish and they also lie to their very own agents.
APP: And how do they know more? Are they geniuses who discovered these data?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: No, they are just criminal peeping Tom's. They spy on others as they did spied on L. Ron Hubbard and found that he was right in anything he discovered. Particularly the psychiatrists of the German SEGNPMSS who secretly control secret services of other countries don't want people to know that he was right. You do not have to say goodbye to somebody you love. Death of a body could mean nothing more than changing a coat.
APP: Secret Services spied on L. Ron Hubbard?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Sure they did. They spy also on me. And if they spy on me, they also spied on him. These evil people, "scientists" and psychiatrists are working mainly for German secret services who track thetans with the intention to separate those who love each other and those who want to stay together, and they make horrible experiments on them. They trap thetans without bodies in all kinds of traps and implant and destroy thetans and by doing so, these idiots are forgetting that whatever they do to others can and will be done also to them and their loved ones if their methods are not published and outlawed. There is always a bad guy who does also something bad to the other bad guy. And those corrupt idiots seem not to realize that.
APP: Some people call you crazy because you make such statements.
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Of course they lie about me because they are robots run by the SEGNPMSS who wants to conceal these data from the broad public. They radio their stupid defamers through their ear implants to lie that I am nuts to make other people fall for it and stop reading what I am writing to keep the truth further concealed. It sure does not need a genius to figure out why I am being defamed…
APP: Wait, wait… You posted recently on alt.religion.scientology about orbs. Are orbs thetans?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: I am absolutely convinced of it.
APP: I found no Church of Scientology publication saying that orbs are thetans.
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Seems that Scientology orgs forgot about orbs. Quite some L. Ron Hubbard research was stolen from the Scientology orgs. It was simply removed on orders of the secret services that I just mentioned to keep mankind further in the dark.
APP: So, there is no LRH policy or bulletin saying that a thetan is an orb?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: I don't think there is one anymore but L. Ron Hubbard said that a thetan is a spiritual being, the person itself without a body and its anchor points and its mind consists of a tiny bit of matter and can be seen and measured. There you have it. These spiritual entities with a little bit of transparent matter that some people capture on tape are responsive thetans.
APP: Scientologists probably call you a "squirrel"…
BARBARA SCHWARZ (laugs): Only those who never heard what L. Ron Hubbard said and discovered and those who don't think for themselves. And those people, I do not call Scientologists.
APP: People who filmed orbs do not really know what they are. These "orbs" look like balls, frisbees, dust balls, rain drops, smoke, cones of lights. People who film them also believe in UFO's, bigfoot, and the tooth fairy.
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Hey, hey, Bigfoot exists, it is supposed to be me. (Laughs) You don't believe in the truth fairy? How come? What about unicorns? (Laughs) But seriously, some of these videos show indeed forged and false orbs but some of those videos show the real deal.
APP: I'm not convinced…
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Nobody can convince anybody about the existence of thetans (orbs). You have to see them yourselves and decide what they are. Real orbs are no dust, rain drops, smoke or cones of lights, they are thetans, people, individuals but also animals without bodies. You should be very interested in that subject, after all, where they are, you will go too one day. How they look, your anchor points and mind will look like and you will be in the middle of it.
APP: How I will look like? Where I will go? You put the fear of God into me! Why not how you will look like and where you go?
BARBARA SCHWARZ (laughs): Without body and if I should not manage to dissolve my anchor and dimension points and my mind, I assume I will look just like them, okay, probably better than many… (laughs) …but you are getting the idea. There is no reason to creep out unless you find yourself creepy. You are such an orb, such a thetan who has a body, and in average of 75 years you lose your body and then you are invisible thetan within a small transparent cloud that consists of your anchor points, dimension points and mind. A thetan without body but with anchor points and a mind looks like an orb. What else would they look like?
APP: That should make me feel good?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: As more you know as better for you. And why are you not happy? Knowing that you do not cease to exist after leaving your body behind can now be scientific proven.
APP: And you think that seeing some dusty or cloudy stuff makes me into a believer?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: No, likely not, but if somebody dies in the family, people could film the dying process of the person with a very good camera and a very clean lens as they could capture how the transparent cloud leaves the body of grandma, and that cloud is thetan grandma with her anchor points and mind. She can't hold on anymore to the old and sick body and is going exterior.
APP: I'll tell my grandma tonight, she will be either thrilled or freak out. Will it work also with grandpa?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: With anybody. You could also film and observe that with a dying dog or another pet.
APP: A little cloud emerges when Pluto dies?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: I bet you can capture that on film. They have anchor points and minds too.
APP: You're saying that L. Ron Hubbard discovered this first?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: That is exactly what I am saying. Once more, L. Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology researched the human being and his/her mind and discovered that a person does not have a soul but that he or she IS that spirit who has a mind and a body. In order not getting his exact scientific finding mix it up with unspecific definitions as soul, spirit, entity or even ghost, he named it thetan. To make things very clear, he said that the person does not have a soul but that the person IS that soul (thetan) and HAS a mind and a body.
APP: Scientology axioms say life is a static and has no mass, no motion, no wavelength, no location in space or in time but has the ability to postulate and to perceive… But you say life has a bit matter and can be seen through a camera and can move around?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: No, I am saying that the thetan has no matter but that his anchor points and dimension points consists of a bit matter and all the images of his mind. The thetan on its own or unified with all other or some other thetans, that is life. God is a thetan too just a lot better and mightier and wiser than other thetans. It is true that a thetan (which can be seen on videos as "orb") can postulate and perceive. Yes, and the thetan can postulate that he wants move and there he flies! Actually, a thetan can move in a hellish or better heavenly fast speed.
APP: Why would a German psychiatric secret service be interested in spirits, I mean in thetans of diseased people?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: For different reasons. One is that they like to trap and steal thetans from foreign countries and plant them into bodies in their country and pass them off as their nationals when in fact these thetans never would have otherwise gone to Germany to pick up a body over there. They do that to uplift their Germany because when that person becomes famous again, they can claim that it is a German and that Germany has these smart and great people and that it is the best country and should lead the world and be worshipped. I bet a gazillion bucks with you that the SEGNPMSS has a program for stealing great thetans to Germany and passing them off as Germans, and they did it also to L. Ron Hubbard.
APP: Many Scientologists will be very disappointed reading this. They think he never would fall in a German psychiatric secret service trap.
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Oh, they can't defeat him! He is the greatest because while the SEGNPMSS thought they had him trapped, he comes alive inside of me to get the truth out. He does not just work with one body. You recognize the real OT by that he is not defeated even if his enemies think they got him now. (Laughs.) He is absolutely brilliant. I know that Germany did not allow L. Ron Hubbard to enter Germany but after their medical doctors ambushed and killed him, they kidnapped L. Ron Hubbard, the thetan to Germany and handed him to a poor and dysfunctional family. If he makes it to be famous and riches despite the unfair poor start, they will pass him around as their own. But they also want to control him as they do NOT want original Scientology back for the broad public. Only their top secret service guys and p$ychiatrists want the technology for themselves. That is another reason why he was kidnapped to Germany. For control reasons. Anyway, the truth will come out and I am telling it already and while the SEGNPMSS think they won, history will show what hypocrites and criminals they are. While the SEGNPMSS thinks they are in control, they miss out on how many levels L. Ron Hubbard postulated the survival of his magnificent research and that includes also his very own rescue from Germany in the future.
APP: Do you have any evidence?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Why do you think that secret services leave their calling card after they committed unthinkable crimes? Does the word "secret" mean anything to you? But here is a taste of what I mean about kidnapping others to uplift Germany. Reichsführer Himmer screamed this on October 4, 1943 in Poznan: "One basic principal must be the absolute rule for the SS man: we must be honest, decent, loyal, and comradely to members of our own blood and to nobody else. What happens to a Russian, to a Czech, does not interest me in the slightest. What the nations can offer in good blood of our type, we will take, if necessary by kidnapping their children and raising them with us. Whether nations live in prosperity or starve to death interests me only in so far as we need them as slaves for our culture; otherwise, it is of no interest to me. Whether 10.000 Russian females fall down from exhaustion while digging an anti-tank ditch interest me only in so far as the anti-tank ditch for Germany is finished. We shall never be rough and heartless when it is not necessary, that is clear. We Germans, who are the only people in the world who have a decent attitude towards animals, will also assume a decent attitude towards these human animals...
APP: But a thetan has no bloodline, he is a spirit, isn't he?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Himmler was a liar. He was not interested in blood as blood doesn't do much. Good people, good thetans is what they wanted, which they would falsely pass on as their own. They do not just kidnap little girls and boys but also thetans without bodies because stupidly, no relatives do claim them.
Remember the many horrible experiments that were done by doctors and psychiatrists to Jews and other minorities under Hitler? Well, the SEGNPMSS is still so obsessed with ruling the fate of people that they do not only mess around with bodies of people but also with the personalities, the thetans, the spirits, the souls, the orbs and make horrible experiments to them. They trick and implant thetans frequently into taking bodies that are of another gender than they would have chosen by themselves. For example, as a man, they would implant you to take a female body and reverse if a thetan had a female time track, they implant her to into a male body. This causes confusion and is the cause of homosexuality. Or they trick a thetan to take an animal body or worst, they degrade beings and destroy the thetan into small parts. A thetan can't be killed but completely destroyed in billions of parts. Let's say, after you died, they target you and suck you in a thetan trap. They split you, the person in smallest parts and implant these parts in germ bodies. You still exist but your parts could be spread all over the world and you would be never the same.
APP: The thetans of other famous people could be trapped and planted into a German family too? Like the thetans of Elvis Presley, Albert Einstein, Sir Winston Churchill, Dwight Eisenhower, Mother Theresa, MLK, JFK, JFK jr, Teddy Roosevelt, Charles Lindberg, Sitting Bull, Mark Twain, Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, John Quincy Adams, Andrew Jackson, John Caldwell Calhoun, Henry Clay, Daniel Webster, Abraham Lincoln, Jefferson Davis, Stephen Grover Cleveland, Woodrow Wilson, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Ronald Reagan, Ulysses Simpson Grant, William Tecumseh Sherman, Robert Edward Lee, Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson, George Catlett Marshall, Harry S. Truman, Douglas. MacArthur, John Marshall, Edward Douglass White, William Howard Taft, Earl Warren, William O. Douglas, Oliver Wendell Holmes, Louis Dembitz Brandeis, Hugo, Lafayette Black, Pontiac, Black Hawk, Tecumseh, Osceola, Cochise, Geronimo, Sitting Bull, Chief Joseph, Crazy Horse, Hiawatha, Squanto, Sequoya, Daniel Boone, Paul Revere, Davy Crockett, Christopher Kit Carson, James Butler "Wild Bill" Hickok, Buffalo Bill, Robert Fulton, Eli Whitney, Samuel Finley Breese, Elias Howe, Alexander Graham Bell, Thomas Alva Edison, Lee De Forest, Vladimir Kosma Zworykin, Wilbur Wright, Orville Wright, Amelia Earhart, Charles Lindbergh, Benjamin Thompson, Count Rumford, Joseph Henry, John Bartram, William Bartram, Asa Gray, Luther Burbank, George Washington Carver, John James Audubon, Samuel Pierpont Langley, Josiah Willard Gibbs, Henry Augustus Rowland, Percy Williams Bridgman, William James, Charles Sanders Peirce, Josiah Royce, John Dewey, George Santayana, Horace Mann, Henry Barnard, Charles William Eliot, Noah Webster, Melvil Dewey, Thorstein Bunde Veblen, Talcott Parsons, William Graham Sumner, Margaret Mead, Dorothea Lynde Dix, William Lloyd Garrison, Frederick Douglass Frederick Augustus Washington Bailey, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, Susan Brownell Anthony, Henry George, Eugene Victor Debs, Jane Addams, Robert Marion La Follette, Roger Williams, Jonathan Edwards, Elizabeth Ann Seton, William Ellery Channing, Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Mary Baker Eddy, Éleùthere Irénée du Pont de Nemours, John Jacob Astor, Cornelius Vanderbilt, Andrew Carnegie, John Pierpont Morgan, John Davison Rockefeller, Andrew William Mellon, Henry Ford, Thomas John Watson, Washington Irving, James Fenimore Cooper, William Hickling Prescott, John Lothrop Motley, Francis Parkman, Ralph Waldo Emerson, Henry David Thoreau, Nathaniel Hawthorne, Herman Melville, William Dean Howells, Henry James, Edith Wharton, Stephen Crane, Theodore Dreiser, Willa Cather, Sinclair Lewis, Pearl Sydenstricker Buck, William Faulkner, Ernest Hemingway, John Steinbeck, Saul Bellow, Isaac Bashevis Singer, James Thurber, Francis Scott Key Fitzgerald, Thomas Wolfe, Richard Wright, Eudora Welty, John Cheever, Norman Mailer, James Baldwin, John Updike, Philip Roth, Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, Edgar Allan Poe, Walt Whitman, Emily Dickinson, Edwin Arlington Robinson, Robert Frost, Wallace Stevens, William Carlos Williams, Marianne Moore, Edward Estlin Cummings, Hart Crane, Langston Hughes, Ezra Pound, Thomas Stearns Eliot, Wystan Hugh Auden, Elizabeth Bishop, Robert Lowell, Allen Ginsberg, Sylvia Plath, Robert Penn Warren, Carl Sandburg, Eugene Gladstone O'Neill, Tennessee Williams Thomas Lanier Williams, Arthur Miller, Edward Albee, Neil Simon, John Singleton Copley, Gilbert Stuart, James Abbott McNeill Whistler, Winslow Homer, Thomas Eakins, Mary Cassatt, Albert Pinkham Ryder, John Singer Sargent, Frederic Remington, Edward Hopper, Georgia O'Keeffe, Thomas Hart Benton, Charles Burchfield, Norman Rockwell, Ben Shahn, Mark Rothko, Jackson Pollock, Andrew Wyeth, Robert Rauschenberg, Jasper Johns, Augustus Saint-Gaudens, Gaston Lachaise, Jo Davidson, Daniel Chester French, Alexander Calder, Louise Nevelson, Isamu Noguchi, Henry Hobson Richardson, Louis Henry Sullivan, Frank Lloyd Wright, Louis I. Kahn, Eero Saarinen, Richard Buckminster Fuller, Edward Durrell Stone, Philip Cortelyou Johnson, Ieoh Ming Pei, Edward Weston, Ansel Adams, Margaret Bourke-White, D. W. David Lewelyn Wark Griffith, Sir Charles Spencer Charlie Chaplin, Walt Disney, George Orson Welles, John Ford, Howard Winchester Hawks, Frank Capra, Sir Alfred Hitchcock, John Huston, Ethel John and Lionel Barrymore, Humphrey Bogart, James Cagney, Spencer Tracy, Helen Hayes Brown, Clark Gable, Joan Crawford, Cary Grant, Greta Garbo, Henry Fonda, John Wayne, Bette Ruth Elizabeth Davis, Judy Garland, Marlon Brando, Marilyn Monroe, W. C. Fields William Claude Dukenfield, Al Jolson, Jack Benny Benjamin Kubelsky, Fred Astaire, Bob Hope, Bing Crosby, Frank Sinatra, Phineas Taylor Barnum, Edward MacDowell, Charles Ives, Ernest Bloch, Virgil Thomson, Roger Sessions, Roy Harris, Aaron Copland, Elliott Carter, Samuel Barber, John Cage, Leonard Bernstein, George Rochberg, George Crumb, Steve Reich, Philip Glass, Stephen Collins Foster, John Philip Sousa, George Michael Cohan, Jerome Kern, Irving Berlin, Cole Porter, George Gershwin, Richard Rodgers, Woody Guthrie, Huddie Ledbetter, Bessie Smith, Muddy Waters, Scott Joplin, James Hubert Eubie Blake, Duke Ellington, William Count Basie, Louis Armstrong, Billie Holiday, John Birks Dizzy Gillespie, Charlie Bird Parker, John Coltrane, Miles Davis, Artur Schnabel, Arthur Rubinstein, Rudolf Serkin, Vladimir Horowitz, Jascha Heifetz, Benny Goodman, Paul Robeson, Marian Anderson Maria Callas, Leontyne Price, Isadora Duncan, Martha Graham, George Balanchine, Agnes De Mille, Jerome Robbins, Martha Graham, Ty Cobb, Babe Ruth, Isaak Hayes and David Gaiman?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: I hope you didn't mix somebody who is still alive in this list and of course, I can't say this for all – but yes, I am sure that the SEGNPMSS steals famous thetans after they dropped their bodies and are planting them in German families so that Germany gets the glory but also to control these famous thetans. As far as your list is concerned, I am a 100% sure that they kidnapped thetan Dwight David Eisenhower to claim him as their own and to control him as the Nazis really hated that he defeated them during WWII. And that is not all. They also plant their bad apple thetans into the USA. If a rotten guy dies in Germany or other places on Earth, they plant those perverted thetans in the USA so that he kills and perverts in the USA and that they can blame the USA on it.
APP: A cold shiver run down my spine…
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Always remember, neither Ron nor I did invent this. This is what bad secret service doctors and psychiatrists do to the thetan, spirit, soul, being, personality, orb in their labs when it has no body. We need laws and law enforcement against these high crimes. Kidnapping, perverting and destroying a thetan is the worst crime in the universe.
APP: So thetans can be trapped?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Yes, and not just that, they also can be destroyed because they can be confused and degraded and their anchor and dimension points and minds can be destroyed. And the broad public, all people on Earth have to understand what they are and what their loved once are: thetans and that we need laws and surveillance so that no good thetans are being kidnapped or destroyed. The Scientology creed wants the same rights for spirits or souls or orbs or better thetans as it wants them for people with bodies.
APP: Some people would say that they don't worry about this as God and Jesus will protect them.
BARBARA SCHWARZ: I don't understand this attitude. Put yourself in God shoes. Let's say, you always were good and did the right things like God did. If you did all the time the right things, why should you be condemned in all eternity to protect constantly people (most of them sinners) by throwing yourself in front of them? God is a thetan too. He deserves better than this. God has done nothing wrong, and God has feelings and don't want to be the emergency ambulance for all time to come. He wants people to understand so that they become better and wiser and that they have to remove the rotten traps from the universe instead of expecting by him to protect each individual sinner of what he or she pulls in as overt motivator sequence, in other words penalty for his or her own bad deeds.
APP: Some people left the Church of Scientology but acknowledge that Scientology is a religion. They mentioned the 8th Dynamic and say that L. Ron Hubbard basically said that certain things just can't be proven…
BARBARA SCHWARZ: The 8th Dynamic is the so-called God dynamic in Scientology. It is about the Supreme Being and what or who it is. As I said, L. Ron Hubbard was forged many times and that includes writings as old as the 50s and also earlier writings. If you knew L. Ron Hubbard, you would know that he never asked to blindly believe but rather to find out exactly. When you understood scientifically what a thetan is and where they come from and when they go, there are great chances that you will understand scientifically also what or who God is and you do not just have to blindly believe. Some people believe that all thetans in the universe unified into one being would be God. But I experienced God as one thetan, an individual. He is very wise, very good and very mighty. He does not want blind believer but that people UNDERSTAND and CHANGE bad ways for good ways as it is the only way to survive and be happy. God's mission for this world and the universe is making everybody understand. The saying: "It is not for us to know" is the most wrongful sentence ever.
APP: I checked Goolge and found information about lecture SELF-DETERMINISM ON THE DYNAMICS, dated 23. October 1951, and it says that L. Ron Hubbard spoke about that 8th Dynamic, when he said: “… because the eighth dynamic is faith. It is not even knowledge, and it is certainly not ARC or understanding. It is faith; it is a static, and in a complete static there is no understanding. The individual is taught ‘You have to understand things in life,’ so he goes ahead and tries to understand the eighth dynamic. But you can’t understand the eighth—that is faith! You accept it. You don’t try to wonder about it.”
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Audios, tapes, papers, photos, anything can be forged and were forged. And don't forget, there was at least one L. Ron Hubbard impostor who told and wrote nonsense. The real L. Ron Hubbard was a scientist, he got to the bottom of anything. This statement is out of character for L. Ron Hubbard. If you understand what a thetan is and what a thetan can do, where a thetan comes from and where the thetan goes and how many different qualities of thetans there are, then you will start to understand what God is and you do not have blindly believe like people in middle ages. Ron said that everything can be understood.
APP: Who on Earth is interested to conceal the truth about thetans and God?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Those who want to do with thetans whatever they want. After you or your family member left the body, you might be attracted with all kinds of stuff, e.g. a tunnel and light, phony pictures of a paradise, three dimensional traps and so on.
APP: A thetan is spiritual. Why can he be trapped? Why does he not leave the trap?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Because a thetan's anchor points and mind exists of a tiny bit of matter and he might think that he can't go through walls or can't leave a jail or can't go through a wall of fire or can't win against that tractor beam or the force that sucks him in like a vacuum cleaner. And he will be constantly implanted with rolling tapes that say that he can't get out of a trap, so he remains in the trap. And there are also traps that make a thetan think that he is not in a trap. And those are the most used traps for thetans. You fly there as thetan without body and will be trapped in international medical laboratories controlled by the SEGNPMSS. And why? Because nobody is looking for you. Your family is clueless as to where you are and what you are now. Some think that you don't exist anymore and some think you are in a better place or with God in paradise. But none of it is true.
APP: Come on, Barbara, how do want to know all of that?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: I just know. As a thetan I know all the secrets. L. Ron Hubbard said that a thetan basically knows things and that is what I also discovered. The large majority of the public is completely in the dark about what thetans are and where they go after their bodies stopped functioning and that is why L. Ron Hubbard said that the thetans must have the rights of people.
APP: But you don't know the whereabouts of Mark or Marty de Rothschild also known as Marty Rathbun?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: I know that he is not Mr. Texas and that the original Marty is wrongfully incarcerated for crimes that he did not commit. Once I figured out where he is being held, the SEGNPMSS transfers him to another prison and that is why I did not get hold of him. But it is a hell of a lot what I figured out just by applying that thetan basically knows.
APP: Do you ever err?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Yes, when I am under stress and when I have to do many things at once and not enough time to think things through.
APP: What if I would say that this thetan/orb stuff is all nonsense?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: It is up to you but you would be a real dummy if you would not film the dying as to see what emerges from that no longer functioning body. It is as easy as that. If you don't want to give it even a shot, I would say that you are an ignorant fool who never figures out anything as you never try anything.
APP: But not all are thetans are being destroyed?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: No, but many are and you better make sure that it don't happen to you or anybody you love.
APP: How can I prevent it?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: By telling everyone that the thetan leaves the body and that his anchor points can be seen and that the thetan is what other people call orbs, by filming the death of your loved family members and friends. If such a thetan stays with your family and a new baby is born in your family, that thetan that left grandpa's body, that thetan who is Grandpa might want this body, and he could be born again after nine months. Then you have him back. Wouldn't that be wonderful? No separation anymore ever. No uncertainty, forever together.
APP: If what you say is true, how come scientists have not investigated that subject?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: The world is not free. People's thinking is controlled. Most "scientists" don't think for themselves but do what their SEGNPMSS case officers radio them. They also might fear to be shun by the also controlled science communities, those spineless cowards.
APP: I never heard a Scientologist saying that the thetan consists of a bit of matter.
BARBARA SCHWARZ: They are right when they say that the thetan does not consist of matter but a trained Scientologists will also tell you that the anchor points and the dimension points consist of a bit matter and that his mind has lots of images and can be measured with the e-meter. And L. Ron Hubbard knew that most of all because he researched it. The thetan's mind and anchor points consists of a bit of matter that you can't see with your normal vision. You need modern technology, an excellent camera against a black background to see a thetan leaving a dying body or to see thetans in your house, your garden, in the woods, in the town, etc. The afterlife is nothing else but you having no body and unfortunately consists of SEGNPMSS traps in which the thetan will step. When you are the person who died, you will see your own body and your family crying and hear what they are saying and you are trying to get their attention, you will wave to them and say: "Hey, I am still here, don't you see me?" But they won't see you as they have forgotten to film how you left the body and now, they don't know where you are.
APP: If that would be true what you are saying, it would be amazing.
BARBARA SCHWARZ: It would make many people feel better if they would know that their loved one did not die.
APP: So, you think that an orb is a thetan?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Yep, that I do. I think an orb shows the anchor an dimension points of a thetans and they come in all shape and forms and sizes. The problem with the orbs is that people also faked them and are making stuff up and once people see that, they dismiss also the things that are true about them. L. Ron Hubbard said this more than 50 decades ago already. He was the first who did not just notice them but describe exactly what thetans or orbs are: it is us. People who died or people without bodies or also animals who died. And L. Ron Hubbard said that thetans should have the same the same rights like humans.
APP: I've watched some YouTube videos…
BARBARA SCHWARZ: There is a lot of crap on YouTube. Do not believe any ghost and UFO story. But in some of these videos, they indeed captured thetans without bodies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmGTuuI2TRQ&feature=fvw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyY7_4z7UB8&feature=related
Here you can see orbs close up. Interesting that many have forms of planets, they are just as round. But all do not look like that, they come in different forms and sizes. Some look like a piece of cotton candy just transparent. Wouldn't you like to know how you and your anchor points and mind looks like without body?
APP: Sure I would. I could be a real bright one. But science did not catch on…
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Because they are mislead by their secret masters or don't have the courage to go into the field as it would ruin their conservative reputation in the world of scientists. But these cowards are anybody's problem at the end. Their stupidity and/or missing courage results in no new knowledge that mankind needs.
APP: Thetans can be destroyed? You are sure of that?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Yes, absolutely, they can be destroyed not just driven away…
Just look at them. You can split their anchor points and dimension points into small pieces and implant them in to total degradation. I often wonder if splitting of atoms is related to splitting of anchor points of thetans. In some European countries, people smoke thetans/orbs out of houses with incense but worse can be done to them. Look at them. Bad people can destroy these spiritual forms by taking them apart and implanting them into even smallest life forms in which they don't want to be, like germs.
Check this video out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilm6eUcy1UA&feature=related
He shows orb pictures and points out that there are no orbs on him but that there would be constantly an orb on a certain woman when he photographs her. And I know exactly why. That thetan wants a baby body. That woman could become pregnant, and the thetan will dive in the pregnant body and hold onto that embryo until it is born as a baby. The producer of this video says that orbs are mainly where many people are and that they love parties. Well, thetans are people who don't want to be lonely, so they go to parties even if they are not invited. (Laughs)
These orbs exists and they are no dust, no reflection of light and no water drops. Those are spiritual entities, called thetans. They are no angles but dead people and they usually are born again by moving into the body of a baby that is just conceived and will be born as babies some months later. And then nobody will fear them anymore unless they scream all day and night long and don't let Mom and Dad get any rest. Unfortunately, they forget all about their spiritual life and their past lives.
I don't think that the couple at the end of the video is "under attack". She might plan to get pregnant and all of them want to get the baby body and just one will get it. These thetans want to become the baby of the couple. It must be a nice couple if so many thetans want to become their baby.
APP: You are kidding me…
BARBARA SCHWARZ: No. Here are more vids.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYhV0Udp4zQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9vywWHzVmM&feature=related
Here is a group of people with kids at nights somewhere in the mountains. The kids play and sing and the orbs (thetans) are attracted to their songs and fly to them. You would think that these entities would fear people and go into hiding when many people sing and laugh. Oh no! That is what they like, then they come and join the party!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hWxKpcnLaU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyWt68_MoXA&NR=1
APP: Those are UFO believers…
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Some of these people who have seen orbs are also saying that they saw UFOs and that makes people think that orbs are science fiction but the orbs (thetans) are real. Some think that orbs are extraterrestrials but they are basically the people who died before on this planet and have no body at the moment.
They love music, arts, and people. Many don't hide in attics or on cemeteries but you will find there also many, the sad and depressed orbs/thetans. But those who are better in shape go where people are. As more people as more they come.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N71PXxydjl4&feature=related
SEGNPMSS kept the information hidden but it seems that they can't keep it a secret any longer as too many people exchanged pictures of thetans (orbs) on the Internet. And now, as the cat is more or less out of the bag, there is a tendency by the SEGNPMSS to give credit of any scientific explanation of the orbs to Germany, and I simply protest against it because I know that L. Ron Hubbard was the first one who did say that the anchor points or dimension points of a thetan (orb) consist of a but matter and can be seen and their presences can be measured and also that we have to respect the thetan (orb).
APP: Let's say you are right and a cloud emerges from the dying body of my grandma but what's the use of it? She can't talk anymore, can she?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: You could agree to a sign language with your relative before she dies. Once you have a camera and you see that cloud, ask her yes or no questions. Yes could be jumping up and down and no could be jumping from right to left or something like that. (But remember, she was 75 years in a body, she has to learn how to move her dimension points around like that.) If she loves you, she probably stays with your family and will take the next new baby body that is available within your family or close friends. And that's it for mourning, and grandma will be back and a handful once she can crawl around.
APP: What if my grandma dies and I am not around to film her departure?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: She might be still in the room and you could find her even if you didn't see her emerge. I think many thetans stick long enough around to see their funeral before they look for a new body.
I think slaughterhouses and turkey processing plants before Thanksgiving could release lots of orbs that one can film but it is possible that their anchor points, the orbs are smaller than thetans that had human body.
APP: That is one creepy thought.
BARBARA SCHWARZ: They sure will not be that responsive. If a human being dies who speaks your language, he or she will understand you also if she or he does not has any body anymore. And if a pet dies, or all these turkey orbs, they will react towards your approach pretty much as they were turkeys. There are thetans or fractions of thetans in those animal bodies. When the bodies are killed because people want to eat their bodies, these thetans have to leave these bodies, and you could detect them as orbs with your camera. These orbs come in all kind of sizes.
If you go out and film the neighborhood and an orb does not respond to you approaching a human, you could deal with an animal thetan and he will not understand much of what you say, unless you say: "Get him, Pluto, get him." He probably hopes that you throw him sticks that he would carry back to you but as he has no body, he can't pick up the stick.
If I would die in China today and people would discover me on their orb cameras and would try to talk to me, I would not be able to understand what they are saying as I do not speak Chinese. But I would be able to move up the sky in form of an 8, which has a special Chinese significance but otherwise, we would not be able to make much contact unless they would approach me in English or German.
APP: I will dream of this tonight…
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Good, have fun! Remember, they are people or animals and afraid of you just as much as people might be afraid of them.
APP: What if people want to capture them? Can they be captured by regular people?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Thetans or orbs must have the same rights that humans have. You are not allowed to capture a human, so do not try to capture a thetan or an orb.
APP: There are a few scientists who wrote about orbs as Miceal Ledwith and Klaus Heinemann. Here is a link:
http://www.merliannews.com/Science_Quantum_Physics_32/Klaus_Heinemann_On_Orbs___Entities.shtml
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Mr. Ledwith is still uncertain what orbs are but he admitted that they could be spirits of those who have passed or wanting to be born in a body, and Mr. Heinemann, a Stanford researcher said last year that he has no doubt that orbs may well be one of the most significant ‘outside of this reality’ phenomena mankind has ever witnessed. But I don't think that they recommend families to film their dying relatives to see them depart to see where they are going and to make sure that they are safe. What makes the most sense is not recommended. What a strange planet.
APP: Thanks, Barbara. Please film my death if my family won't do it. You make me feel safe.
BARBARA SCHWARZ: I hope when it is your "turn" to die, it will be mainstream that people know what they are and what their relatives are, thetans also known as orbs and how they can make sure that they do not go lost in some gruesome medical lab.
